美网友：中国人民会为百年屈辱向西方复仇吗?

对中国而言，不时提及近世以来半殖民的历史，更多的是塑造现代民族国家的一种方式，是形成国家和社会凝聚力之所需，也是警醒自己不可松懈的一种手法，其着眼点更多是防守性的，亦即避免重复“落后就要挨打”的历史遭遇。这是中国版的居安思危。

　至于一个复兴的中国会不会向西方“复仇”？我们不妨尝试从常识的角度去推想：一个人的祖辈被另外一个人的祖辈伤害过，是否构成这个人主动引战或发起攻击的充分理由，尤其是在这种攻击肯定会招致反击乃至毁灭性打击的情景下？图强以免再遭伤害是正常的，但这绝不意味着以复仇为自强的目标是理性的。国家间何尝不也是如此。美国论坛网站Quora有美国网友发起这样一个提问：中国人民会为百年屈辱向西方复仇吗? 这个话题引起各国网友的讨论，我们来看看他们是怎么看待这个问题的吧。

论坛话题

美籍华裔的观点

When I was a kid, I traveled around Beijing, and went to the Summer palace(圆明园), if you're British or French , before you keep reading, do you know what I meant by this? How many people in your country know this place?

当我还是个孩子的时候，我环游了北京，还去了颐和园(圆明园)，如果你是英国人或法国人，在你继续阅读之前，你知道我说的是什么意思吗?你们国家有多少人知道这个地方?

It was a very beautiful place, this is how it looked like. Before got looted and burned down in 1860 by the British and French.

那是一个非常美丽的地方，这就是它的样子。在1860年被英国人和法国人抢劫烧毁之前。

This is what this looks like now.

这就是现在的样子

It's not just a palace, but also there were a lot of immeasurable gifts from hundreds of years in Chinese history.

它不仅是一座宫殿，而且还有中国几百年历史上许多不可估量的礼物。

Speaking of this, I never understand why they just like burn things down to the ground? As far as I know, the French also burned the Sphinx in Egypt. I could use the worse words to describe these kind of action.

说到这个，我一直不明白他们为什么喜欢把东西烧成灰烬?据我所知，法国人还烧毁了埃及的狮身人面像。我可以用更糟糕的词来形容这种行为

Ok, now continue with the Chinese history. Do you recall this now? I guess still no. I never been to Britain or France, but I guess you won't even mention that in your textbook. Maybe because compare to other evil stuffs your ancestors did in history to other countries, what they did in China is a very small thing. Why would a killer who killed hundreds of people remember he stole a beautiful guitar when he was young.

好的，现在继续讲中国历史。你现在还记得吗?我想还是没有。我从没去过英国或法国，但我猜你们的课本里都不会提到这一点。也许是因为和你的祖先在历史上对其他国家做的坏事相比，他们在中国做的事情是非常小的。为什么一个杀了几百人的杀手会记得他年轻时偷了一把漂亮的吉他。

Please understand, this is just one thing the British and French did to us, there are much more. It's just impossible to write them all down.

请理解，这只是英国人和法国人对我们做的一件事，还有更多。把它们都写下来是不可能的。

Now to your question though. Will we ever seeking for revenge? We will never forget, but we will not seeking for revenge. Not because 'oh we are kind, we are nice people, we don't loot…’. No not because of that, that's nonsense. But because the British taught us one very important lesson, being weak means you WILL get robbed. In a world with western people in it, you need to staying strong. Look at Syria.

现在回到你的问题。我们会寻求报复吗?我们永远不会忘记，但我们不会寻求报复。不是因为‘哦，我们很善良，我们是好人，我们不抢劫……’。不，不是因为那个，那是胡说八道。但因为英国人教会了我们一个非常重要的教训，软弱意味着你会被抢劫。在一个有西方人的世界里，你需要保持强大。看看叙利亚。

Revenge? To the young French and British who didn't invade China? That's not reasonable of course. I think now is just fine. China has a long history, we simply cannot take revenge to everyone that hurted us. The west was not the first invader we got, but our job should be try to make sure they could be the last one. Just making sure these kind of thing won't happen again would be a better solution.

报复吗?献给那些没有侵略中国的法国和英国年轻人?这当然是不合理的。我想现在就可以了。中国有悠久的历史，我们不能报复所有伤害过我们的人。西方不是我们遇到的第一个入侵者，但我们的工作应该是努力确保他们是最后一个。确保这类事情不再发生是更好的解决办法。

Edit: I see from the comments, seems like my answer was interpred as hatred towards the west, or cry for the innocence of Chinese.

编辑:我从评论中看到，我的回答似乎被解读为对西方的仇恨，或者是为中国人的无辜哭泣。

Well no, neither of that. No country is totally innocent. And this answer is not to promote the hatred to French or British at all, as I wrote at first, you probably don't know this. Think it as a new, not very interesting fact about China for you. I like France. I even got a tattoo of French. 'Mai dire mai'. With a flower next to it, which was from a French book. (Speaking of this, I don't know French at all, and I Google it, it shows it's actually Italian…if there is any French reading this, please tell me it IS French, otherwise it would be awkward)

不，都不是。没有哪个国家是完全无辜的。这个答案并不是要宣扬对法国人或英国人的仇恨，就像我一开始写的，你可能不知道。对你来说，这是一个新的，不是很有趣的关于中国的事实。我喜欢法国。我还纹了个法语纹身。'Mai dire Mai '。旁边还有一朵花，是一本法语书里的。(说到这个，我根本不懂法语，我谷歌它，它显示它实际上是意大利语…如果有法国人看到这篇文章，请告诉我它是法语，否则会很尴尬)

I appreciate if there are still any details for this tragedy that you know, and you believe. But I don't think there is anyway to justify the crime of Angelo-French force did.

我很感激如果你还知道关于这场悲剧的任何细节，而且你相信。但我不认为有任何理由证明法国军队犯下的罪行是正确的。

"We call ourselves civilized and them barbarians," wrote the outraged author, Victor Hugo. "Here is what Civilization has done to Barbarity."

“我们自称文明人，而他们自称野蛮人，”愤怒的作家维克多·雨果(Victor Hugo)写道。“这就是文明对野蛮的影响。”

Seems like this is recorded perfectly clear in any language. At least in French and Chinese.

似乎任何语言都清楚地记录了这一点。至少在法语和汉语中是这样。

美国网友的观点

The most damage to China with the longest lasting effects was the Opium trade. My grandfather ran a clinic in Hefei during the 1920’s and 1930’s to rehabilitate opium users. His stories are astounding. Almost everything bad that happened to China during that time up until the Japanese invasion had a root cause of Opium addiction.

对中国损害最大、影响最持久的是鸦片贸易。上世纪二三十年代，我祖父在合肥开了一家诊所，帮助吸食鸦片的人戒毒。他的故事令人震惊。在日本入侵之前，几乎所有发生在中国的坏事都是鸦片成瘾的根本原因。

Although Opium had been in China for a while, it was the British who invented mass cultivation of Opium poppies and used it to offset trade imbalances due to demand of luxury Chinese goods like silks, porcelain and teas. This was done by Western oligarchs from Great Britain and the United States. It was exploitation of the worst kind and speaks volumes about the nature of capitalism and racism.

虽然鸦片在中国已经有一段时间了，但是英国人发明了大规模种植y粟，并用它来抵消由于对丝绸、瓷器和茶叶等奢侈品的需求而导致的贸易失衡。这是英国和美国的西方寡头做的。这是一种最恶劣的剥削，充分说明了资本主义和种族主义的本质。

新加坡网友的观点

I don't think so. It is generally accepted conclusion that the century of humiliation happened because the Qing dynasty royal family was weak, corrupted and cowardice. Their complacency and closed mindedness caused them to ignore the development in other parts of the world. They were short sighted, only considered outside world brought amusement to them. They were also naive to think other countries were there to pay tribute because China were so "great". It is the dynasty's and its people's own fault.

我不这么想。人们普遍认为，清朝的百年屈辱是由于清朝王室的软弱、腐败和懦弱造成的。他们的自满和封闭思想使他们忽视了世界其他地区的发展。他们目光短浅，只认为外面的世界给他们带来了乐趣。他们还天真地认为其他国家去那里是为了向中国致敬，因为中国太“伟大”了。这是这个王朝和它的人民自己的错。

The century of humiliation tells Chinese never to left behind again. The only revenge thay can have is to be ahead of development and be able to stand on our own feet.

百年屈辱告诉中国人永不再掉队。他们唯一的复仇就是走在发展的前面，能够自立。

The anger towards former invading nations are always triggered by recent events, such as denying the war crime committed or worshiping war criminals, but no in the sense seeking getting even from the past invasion itself.

对侵略国的愤怒总是由最近发生的事情引发，比如否认犯下的战争罪行或崇拜战犯，但从某种意义上说，并不是为了报复过去的侵略本身。

美国网友的观点

The Chinese government’s orthodox position is that not only the Chinese people were victims, but the Western people were also victims, of the Imperialists and Colonizers. If you think about it, what did the ordinary jack get out of it? He had to kill and die for a lousy paycheck, to keep his body and soul together, when he could have enjoyed a peaceful and secure life as an international trader, or builders, or machinists, or artist or scientist, making a decent living out of it, with a nice family to enjoy his life with. Just look at Germany and Japan. They were taken over by crazy and greedy imperialists, got decimated, settled down after the defeat, and worked on their own country, and now richer and more powerful than ever.

中国政府的正统立场是，不仅中国人民是帝国主义和殖民者的受害者，西方人民也是受害者。如果你仔细想想，普通的千斤顶从中得到了什么?他不得不为了一份可怜的薪水而杀人和死亡，以维持他的身体和灵魂在一起，而他本可以作为一个国际贸易商、建筑商、机械师、艺术家或科学家，享受一种和平而安全的生活，过上体面的生活，有一个美好的家庭享受他的生活。看看德国和日本就知道了。他们被疯狂贪婪的帝国主义者接管，遭到大量屠杀，战败后定居下来，建设自己的国家，现在比以往任何时候都更富有、更强大。

Taking ‘revenge’ on your fellow victims is unreasonable, and this Chinese Government would go to EXTRAORDINARY length to prevent it. Let me give you an example.

The surgeon you see in the photograph above is Dr. Norman Bethune, a Canadian doctor who ran battlefield clinics in China during WWII. He became, arguably, the most famous foreigner in China, with his work featured in every elementary school textbook, and thousands of hospitals and clinics in China named after him.

你在上面照片中看到的外科医生是诺曼·白求恩医生，他是一位加拿大医生，二战期间在中国经营战地诊所。他可以说是中国最著名的外国人，他的作品出现在每一本小学教科书上，中国有数千家医院和诊所以他的名字命名。

He died from illness in 1939 in China. In his will, he left his camera to one of his friends, a young war correspondent and photographer, Sha Fei,

1939年他因病在中国去世。在遗嘱中，他把相机留给了他的一个朋友，一位年轻的战地记者兼摄影师沙飞，

Trained at Shanghai Academy of Fine Arts, Sha Fei might have become a famous celebrity photographer if not for WWII. He photographed the most famous Chinese author at the time, Lu Xun, surrounded by adoring fellow artists and authors. It became an instant hit with all major publications. He made a good start on fame and fortune. If not for the War.

沙飞毕业于上海美术学院，如果不是因为二战，他可能会成为一名著名的名人摄影师。他拍摄了当时最著名的中国作家鲁迅的照片，周围是崇拜他的艺术家和作家同行。这本书在所有主要出版物上一炮而红。他在名利上开了个好头。如果不是因为战争。

But the War came, and the world changed. He started photographing blind beggars, crying war orphans, and soldiers fighting under the shadow of the Great Wall.

但是战争来了，世界变了。他开始拍摄盲人乞丐、哭泣的战争孤儿，以及在长城阴影下战斗的士兵。

There were also moments of tenderness, like the photograph below, when the CCP guerrilla found some Japanese orphans from the ruins of the town, fed and clothed the children, and sent them hundreds of miles away to a neutral town, to be returned back to Japan.

也有温情的时刻，就像下面这张照片，中共游击队从废墟中找到了一些日本孤儿，给孩子们衣食住行，把他们送到数百英里外的一个中立城镇，让他们回到日本。

But it was War, after all. So he also photographed a lot of people, tortured, dead, or dying. Many of them his friends. 20 million Chinese died during the Japanese invasion. Whole cities, like Nanjing, were wiped clean of human lives. Nanking Massacre Bubonic Plague were dropped over Chinese cities. 'Japan bombed China with plague-fleas' People were dissected alive for medical experiments. Unit 731 Photographing the daily atrocities became the lot of a wartime photo journalist.

但这毕竟是战争。所以他也拍了很多人，被折磨的，死去的，或垂死的。他们中的许多人是他的朋友。2000万中国人死于日本侵略。整个城市，比如南京，都被夷为平地。南京大屠杀，黑死病在中国城市空投。“日本用鼠疫蚤轰炸中国”人们被活体解剖用于医学实验。拍摄日常暴行成了战时摄影记者的使命。

He suspected every Japanese person he encountered of trying to kill him. In 1950, while undergoing treatment in hospital, he found out that the doctor treating him was a Japanese doctor. Fearing that the doctor was trying to kill him, he took out his gun and shot the doctor.

他怀疑他遇到的每一个日本人都想杀他。1950年，在医院接受治疗时，他发现治疗他的医生是一名日本医生。他担心医生要杀他，于是拿出枪向医生开了枪。

The verdict was printed in the PLA newspaper and publicized to the whole military. The point was clear - there would be zero tolerance of killing foreign civilians, even if this civilian was from a country that had committed unspeakable atrocities in China. There were 2 million Japanese civilians left trapped in China after WWII. The strong discipline from the Chinese resulted in few acts of vengeance on these Japanese civilians. Certainly much less than what happened in Europe. The Ending of the Second World War in China | FifteenEightyFour | Cambridge University Press Such is the historic fact. Just go do your own research on what happened to the Germans, both in and outside of German Proper post-war, vs. what happened to these Japanese citizens left in China. The historic record is very clear.

判决书刊登在解放军报纸上，向全军公布。 重点很明确——对杀害外国平民零容忍，即使这个平民来自一个在中国犯下无法形容的暴行的国家。 二战后有200万日本平民被困在中国。 中国人的严明纪律导致对这些日本平民的报复行为很少。 当然比欧洲发生的情况要少得多。 第二次世界大战在中国的结束 | 十五八十四 | 剑桥大学出版社 这就是历史事实。 只需自己研究一下德国人在战后德国本土内外发生的事情，以及这些留在中国的日本公民的遭遇。 历史记载非常清楚。

In 1986, the Chinese government finally understood more about PTSD, and realized that Sha Fei was suffering from a mental illness, and he was really not in control of his actions. So the verdict was set aside, and his good name restored.

1986年，中国政府终于对创伤后应激障碍有了更多的了解，并意识到沙飞患有精神疾病，他真的无法控制自己的行为。所以判决被撤销了，他的好名声恢复了。

This little piece of past record shows you how far the Chinese Government is willing to go to stop the retributions against ordinary people, no matter who they are and where they come from. Tribal feelings are understandable, but resorting to violence is always wrong. How many other countries have executed their own, even high-ranking inpiduals, for killing “enemy civilians”? Did anyone even get a gentle box on the ear for the My Lai Massacre? Or the long strings of wedding parties that got droned off? Let’s not even talk about how the Military treats foreign civilians, but what about how SOME of the Police treating our own unarmed citizens? Forget about all that performing art in front of the camera. Let’s see some real Homicide Convictions

这一小段过去的记录表明，中国愿意在多大程度上阻止对普通人的报应，无论他们是谁，来自哪里。部落情绪可以理解，但诉诸暴力总是错误的。有多少其他国家曾因杀害“敌方平民”而处决自己的国民，甚至是高级官员?有人因为美莱村大屠杀被打了一记耳光吗?还是没完没了的婚礼派对?我们甚至不讨论军方如何对待外国平民，但一些警察如何对待我们自己手无寸铁的公民呢?忘了那些镜头前的表演艺术吧。让我们来看看真正的杀人案。

If you look at the past patterns of behavior, it’s more likely for the Nazis to come back in the West, then for China to “seek revenge”, ever, under this government. An ineffective refugee policy is enough to have the long-buried ghost popping out of the woods in Europe. The Chinese, on the other hand, chose to remain a civilized people, even when they had sunk to the gutter of the poorest country on earth after the long Century of Humiliation, with average life expectancy of 36 years, and 80% illiteracy in 1950. They still chose to be a civilized people.

如果你看看过去的行为模式，在这个政府的领导下，纳粹更有可能回到西方，然后中国“寻求报复”。一项无效的难民政策足以让长期被埋葬的幽灵从欧洲的树林里冒出来。另一方面，中国人选择保持文明，即使他们在经历了漫长的世纪屈辱后，已经陷入了地球上最贫穷的国家的阴沟，1950年的平均预期寿命为36岁，文盲率为80%。他们仍然选择做一个文明人。

This concern for “Chinese revenge on the West” is really a kind of projecting one’s own pathos onto a different people and a different culture. Allowing barbarity to grow among your own people is NOT WINNING. Ordinary people from all sides bear the brunt of the war, suffer grievously, for no benefit. They try to survive, that’s all. You’d think that people should have learned this by heart after two world wars already!

这种对“中国人对西方的报复”的关注实际上是一种将自己的悲情投射到不同的民族和不同的文化上。让野蛮在你自己的人民中滋长是不会赢的。战争中，各方老百姓首当其冲，苦不堪言，毫无益处。他们努力生存，仅此而已。你可能会认为，在经历了两次世界大战之后，人们应该已经记住了这一点!